Discussion:
WHO IS THE ENEMY?
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Conquistador
2004-05-25 01:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Started out with Osama, then Saddam, then WMD's:

Bush Vows to Persevere Against "The Enemy." Who Exactly is the Enemy at this
Point, Iraqi Nationalists, Arabs in General, Chalabi, American Torturers,
Saudi Terrorist Financiers, Pakistani Nuclear Salesmen, Bush? We are Very,
Very Confused.
Passerby
2004-05-25 03:26:05 UTC
Permalink
Indeed we are. The enemy is Islamism but we are too politically correct to
say it aloud.
Post by Conquistador
Bush Vows to Persevere Against "The Enemy." Who Exactly is the Enemy at this
Point, Iraqi Nationalists, Arabs in General, Chalabi, American Torturers,
Saudi Terrorist Financiers, Pakistani Nuclear Salesmen, Bush? We are Very,
Very Confused.
Jim E
2004-05-25 04:37:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Conquistador
Bush Vows to Persevere Against "The Enemy." Who Exactly is the Enemy at this
Point, Iraqi Nationalists, Arabs in General, Chalabi, American Torturers,
Saudi Terrorist Financiers, Pakistani Nuclear Salesmen, Bush? We are Very,
Very Confused.
Actually, the enemy is any individual with a brain as
deranged as yours.
An obvious terrorist at heart.
Beat possible solution, you as compost.

Jim E
Pat Harrington
2004-05-25 11:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Conquistador
Bush Vows to Persevere Against "The Enemy." Who Exactly is the Enemy at this
Point, Iraqi Nationalists, Arabs in General, Chalabi, American Torturers,
Saudi Terrorist Financiers, Pakistani Nuclear Salesmen, Bush? We are Very,
Very Confused.
The enemy is militant Islam. The kind that requires conversion
or death. The "think and do as we do or die" type of moslems. Not
the majority but those that give the majority a bad name by raping the
concepts of Islam and pimping out their version to the masses as if it
were the best and most sacred aspects of the faith.
The problem is that the majority of moslems do nothing about it.
They're too afraid to face them because they know that they will not
be given the choice of conversion or death. Already being moslems,
they can only face death as a "traitor to the faith" if they oppose
the militants. I say you'd better buck up your courage and stand up
and fight these bastards yourself or the world may not be able to tell
the difference between you for very much longer.
Conquistador
2004-05-25 12:28:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat Harrington
Post by Conquistador
Bush Vows to Persevere Against "The Enemy." Who Exactly is the Enemy at this
Point, Iraqi Nationalists, Arabs in General, Chalabi, American Torturers,
Saudi Terrorist Financiers, Pakistani Nuclear Salesmen, Bush? We are Very,
Very Confused.
The enemy is militant Islam.
How about the militant Christianity (Jimmy Jones, Rudolf ,McVay) are they
OK?

The kind that requires conversion
Post by Pat Harrington
or death.
Been muslim all my life never heard of such an ideology

The "think and do as we do or die" type of moslems.
I thought that was the Bush agenda!

Not
Post by Pat Harrington
the majority but those that give the majority a bad name by raping the
concepts of Islam and pimping out their version to the masses as if it
were the best and most sacred aspects of the faith.
Your knowledge of Islam is astounding! You know everything! Genius!
Post by Pat Harrington
The problem is that the majority of moslems do nothing about it.
They're too afraid to face them because they know that they will not
be given the choice of conversion or death.
Conversion to what?

Already being moslems,
Post by Pat Harrington
they can only face death as a "traitor to the faith" if they oppose
the militants.
You are load of laughs! There are no "militants". Nor priests, nor central
authority in Islam and nobody makes an agenda for muslims except individuals
themselves!

I say you'd better buck up your courage and stand up
Post by Pat Harrington
and fight these bastards yourself or the world may not be able to tell
the difference between you for very much longer.
This is just george Bush and Adolf Sharon, seeing a "terrorist" under every
bush
Pat Harrington
2004-05-25 18:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Conquistador
Post by Pat Harrington
Post by Conquistador
Bush Vows to Persevere Against "The Enemy." Who Exactly is the Enemy at
this
Post by Pat Harrington
Post by Conquistador
Point, Iraqi Nationalists, Arabs in General, Chalabi, American
Torturers,
Post by Pat Harrington
Post by Conquistador
Saudi Terrorist Financiers, Pakistani Nuclear Salesmen, Bush? We are
Very,
Post by Pat Harrington
Post by Conquistador
Very Confused.
The enemy is militant Islam.
How about the militant Christianity (Jimmy Jones, Rudolf ,McVay) are they
OK?
Absolutely not! But McVey has been dealt with, Jones took
himself out and I'm not sure who this Rudolf character is. But for
every single Christian wacko you name, there are a thousand muslims
strapped with bombs ready to allahu akbar themselves to oblivion
provided they take two or more non-moslems with them.
Post by Conquistador
The kind that requires conversion
Post by Pat Harrington
or death.
Been muslim all my life never heard of such an ideology
And that's a load of rubbish. Of course it's not the mainstream
or the "proper" faith, but we all know that Islam means "submission to
God's will" and all it takes is for some idiot to claim he knows what
Allah's will is and that it is to force Islam on the infidels and a
thousand uneducated farmers and nomads with average intelligence and a
fervent faith are willing to lay down their lives for Allah. I know I
don't NEED to spell this out for you but I will anyway just in case
you're subnormal.
Post by Conquistador
The "think and do as we do or die" type of moslems.
I thought that was the Bush agenda!
But George is not a muslim, did you think he was?
Post by Conquistador
Not
Post by Pat Harrington
the majority but those that give the majority a bad name by raping the
concepts of Islam and pimping out their version to the masses as if it
were the best and most sacred aspects of the faith.
Your knowledge of Islam is astounding! You know everything! Genius!
Post by Pat Harrington
The problem is that the majority of moslems do nothing about it.
They're too afraid to face them because they know that they will not
be given the choice of conversion or death.
Conversion to what?
Why Judaism, of course! What else would any self-respecting
moslem really desire to be. I love answering rhetorical questions!
To answer truthfully, I would say, militant Islam or Alqaidism or
hamasism or perhaps most appropriately called jihadism.
Post by Conquistador
Already being moslems,
Post by Pat Harrington
they can only face death as a "traitor to the faith" if they oppose
the militants.
You are load of laughs! There are no "militants". Nor priests, nor central
authority in Islam and nobody makes an agenda for muslims except individuals
themselves!
Then what do you call someone like Osama Bin Laden? If he isn't
a leader of militant moslems, what is he? A really friendly guy who's
willing to sit down at a table and discuss the issues rationally?
Post by Conquistador
I say you'd better buck up your courage and stand up
Post by Pat Harrington
and fight these bastards yourself or the world may not be able to tell
the difference between you for very much longer.
This is just george Bush and Adolf Sharon, seeing a "terrorist" under every
bush
It's not just Bush and Sharon. It's a fair number of ordinary
citizens. And, unfortunately for American moslems, ordinary citizens
can possess firearms. You threaten the integrity of neighbourhoods'
safety and you'll find a militia drawn up in no time. And people like
Louis Farrakhan will be struck down in the streets, mosques burned,
lard dripped over graves and a whole lot more. People will only take
so much before they snap and if moslems can't police their own then
the rest of mankind will forced to kill them all and let God sort them
out. Your choice. If you choose to turn your back on your brethren,
then you deserve to die along side of them. A coward's death.
amigocabal
2004-05-26 15:28:52 UTC
Permalink
the enmy is israel!

I can't wait to see Abu Ghraib prison reduced to rubble by the Americans -
at the request of the new Iraqi government, of course. It will be turned to
dust in order to destroy a symbol of Saddam's brutality. That's what
President Bush tells us. So the re-writing of history still goes on.

Last August, I was invited to Abu Ghraib - by my favourite US General Janis
Karpinski, no less - to see the million-dollar US refurbishment of this
vile place. Squeaky clean cells and toothpaste tubes and fresh pairs of
pants for the "terrorist" inmates. But now, suddenly, the whole kit and
caboodle is no longer an American torture centre. It's still an Iraqi
torture centre, and thus worthy of demolition.

The re-writing of Iraqi history is now going on at supersonic speed.
Weapons of mass destruction? Forget it. Links between Saddam and al-Qa'ida?
Forget it. Liberating the Iraqis from Saddam's Abu Ghraib life of torture?
Forget it. Wedding party slaughtered? Forget it. Clear the decks for both
"full (sic) sovereignty" and "chaotic events". This is, at any rate,
according to Mr Bush. When I heard his hesitant pronunciation of Abu Ghraib
as "Abu Grub" on Monday night, I could only profoundly agree.

But we're in danger again of missing the detail. Just as the unsupervised
armed mercenaries being killed in Iraq are being described by the
occupation authorities as "contractors" or, more mendaciously, "civilians"
- so the responsibility for the porno interrogations at Abu Ghraib is being
allowed to slide into the summer mists over the Tigris river. So let's go
back, for a moment, to the long weeks in which the Department of Bad Apples
allowed its jerks to put leashes around Iraqi necks, forced prisoners to
have sex with each other and raped some Iraqi lasses in the jail.

And let's cast our eyes upon that little, all-important matter of
responsibility. The actual interrogators accused of encouraging US troops
to abuse Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib jail were working for at least one
company with extensive military and commercial contacts with Israel. The
head of an American company whose personnel are implicated in the Iraqi
tortures, it now turns out, attended an "anti-terror" training camp in
Israel and, earlier this year, was presented with an award by Shaul Mofaz,
the right-wing Israeli defence minister.

According to Dr J P London's company, CACI International, the visit of Dr
London - sponsored by an Israeli lobby group and including US congressmen
and other defence contractors - was "to promote opportunities for strategic
partnerships and joint ventures between US and Israeli defence and homeland
security agencies".

The Pentagon and the occupation powers in Iraq insist that only US citizens
have been allowed to question prisoners in Abu Ghraib - but this takes no
account of Americans who may also hold double citizenship. The once secret
torture report by US General Antonio Taguba refers to "third country
nationals" involved in the mistreatment of prisoners in Iraq.

General Taguba mentions Steven Staphanovic and John Israel as involved in
the abuses at Abu Ghraib. Staphanovic, who worked for CACI - known to the
US military as "Khaki" - was said by Taguba to have "allowed and/or
instructed MPs (military police), who were not trained in interrogation
techniques, to facilitate interrogations by 'setting conditions' ... he
clearly knew his instructions equated to physical abuse". One of
Staphanovic's co-workers, Joe Ryan - who was not named in the Taguba report
- now says that he underwent an "Israeli interrogation course" before going
to Iraq.

We know the Pentagon asked Israel for its "rules of engagement" in the
occupied West Bank and Gaza. Israeli officers have briefed their US
opposite numbers and, according to the Associated Press, "in January and
February of 2003, Israeli and American troops trained together in southern
Israel's Negev desert ... Israel has also hosted senior law enforcement
officials from the United States for a seminar on counter-terrorism".

Staphanovic of CACI, who may also be Australian, was accused by Taguba's
army report of making "a false statement to the investigation team
regarding ... his knowledge of abuses". Another outside interrogator, Adel
Nakhla,who may be of Egyptian origin, was a witness to the "stacking" of
naked prisoners in Abu Ghraib. John Israel "misled" investigators by
denying he had witnessed misconduct and did not have "security clearance".
Israel, according to Titan - two of whose employees were mentioned in
Taguba's report - works for one of the company's "sub-contractors". Titan
refused to name the "sub-contractor".

Why? Among the company's former directors is ex-CIA director James Woolsey,
one of the architects of the US invasion of Iraq, a friend of Ahmed Chalabi
and a prominent pro-Israeli lobbyist in Washington. Dr London says CACI
"does not condone or tolerate or endorse in any fashion (sic) any illegal,
inappropriate behaviour on the part of its employees in any circumstances
at any time anywhere".

But it is clear the torture trail at Abu Ghraib has to run much further
than a group of brutal US military cops, all of whom claim "intelligence
officers" told them to "soften up" their prisoners for questioning. Were
they Israeli? Or South African? Or British? Are we going to let the story
go?


Check out this Must read article about Abu Ghraib:

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=2591
Jim E
2004-05-26 20:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by amigocabal
the enmy is israel!
If you can't argue the facts, throw out the red fish.
what a loser
Mooslimes must smarten up or die.


Jim E

L Smithson
2004-05-25 13:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Conquistador
Bush Vows to Persevere Against "The Enemy." Who Exactly is the Enemy at this
Point, Iraqi Nationalists, Arabs in General, Chalabi, American Torturers,
Saudi Terrorist Financiers, Pakistani Nuclear Salesmen, Bush? We are Very,
Very Confused.
In Neocon speak, the enemy are the enemies of, what the USA media
proudly trumpets as, "the only democracy in the Mideast" and its
ethnic cleansing of Semitic indigens. The "enemies" include the
Western concept of morality, conduct, and international law. Bush is
simply aping lines that have been cunningly fed to him, by the
propagandists and manipulators that inform him or his advisors with
the aim of continuing the use of innocent American heartlanders in
fighting proxy wars regardless of the spilling of American blood, and
regardless of possible terrorist consequences in American soil down
the line. Needless to say, the enemies of America are really the
Neocon Junta that currently runs America. The "enemies" are the Media,
largely at their service, that fails to expose this fact.

Best wishes.
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